Moonsorrow

Epic Heathen Forum
It is currently Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:12 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour



Welcome
Welcome to moonsorrow

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Land of Obese Unicorns
Okay, let's debate :P

I personally find there IS a direction in this album. As Grilo said in his own review, there is a shamanic feel on this album, which had never been there before (except maybe on the beginning of Tuleen Ajettu Maa, but not as complex as in this album). But for me, this album is definitely the "choir album". Thoses choirs are so damn well excecuted! So much power, so many layers, such beauty in the voices, so much bass and barytone... They give me chills. Of course, there were choirs before, but the only one which can compete (and even top, imo) those from Jumalten Aika is located at the end of Tulimyrsky. Well, if you think there are better choirs somewhere else, let me know, I might have missed something ^^ (okay, those on Jotunheim are amazing too)
And noone is talking about the sound, but it definitely changed: where other records had tiny dynamics (look at the soundwave on Hävitetty ;) ), this one is mastered in a way you could nearly grasp the accoustic instruments. The more obvious change is for the drums, that I didn't like first, but I have to admit their sound is unique, in a good way (but, though I now understand why they chose it, I still prefer their sound on Verisäkeet). The dynamics thing is clearly an improvement, the drums thing is an artistic choice, but the fact is they want to step out of the old tracks, soundwise.

But, yeah, I have to agree with you for the rest: the album is very similar to all the styles they used to play. In fact, here are the links I make between new songs and old albums, but I'd like to know if everyone here thinks the same:


- Jumalten Aika: Kivenkantaja with less snowy atmosphere, maybe darker (for example, the brass instruments are way more in the bass tones than in Kivenkantaja). But some parts remind me of Unohdusken Lapsi. And some riffs are built the same way as with some others on Haaska and Jäästä Syntynyt.

- Ruttolehto:
Tulimyrsky for the choirs and the blast beats, maybe a little of Verisäkeet for the riffs (not a particular song). The little flute part (which becomes amazingly epic) reminds me of something else but I can tell what exactly. If anyone can help with that, it will be appreciated. The first time I listened to the song, I thought there would be a solo when the lead guitar does some "cringing" bends, because there is at least one other song which uses that before a solo (I'm confused, I can't remember which one). But these bends have been used in other songs, for sure, even without a solo. [EDIT: for example at the end of Jäästä Syntynyt]

- Suden Tunti: I don't know if the similarity with the title Suden Uni was done on purpose, but I definitely think the main riff is almost the first riff of Köyliönjärven Jäällä (on Suden Uni), and rearranged to be in the style Karhunkynsi. Moreover, in the beginning, the riff is in 4/4, and becomes 7/8 in the end, which makes me think of some of their other songs with strange time signatures. But this is why we like them, eh, because they manage to make sound right an unusual rythm :D (well, at least, that's my case)

- Mimisbrunn:
clearly in the spirit of Hävitetty. For example the construction in the beginning, with the bass over an acoustic guitar, is very similar to the beginning of Jäästä Syntynyt. And the song is gradually built upon up to climaxes, or mini-climaxes. But some arrangements are drawn form far earlier: we didn't hear orchestra hits like that since Taistelu Pohjolasta on Tämä Ikuinen Talvi! (well, as it was re-recorded on Tulimyrsky, this isn't true, but still, the original song wasn't made in 2008). And the "in your face" feeling when the distorted guitar comes in is the same on Tulimyrsky (it scared me to death the first couple of times I heard these songs, bad Moonsy, bad bad Moonsy!)

- Ihmisen Aika: to me it sounds like Varjoina Kuljemme Kuolleiden Maassa on steroids (for the main riff and the "vivid" atmosphere), mixed with Tulimyrsky/Tämä Ikuinen Talvi (for the blast beats and blackish parts), mixed with Voimastaa Ja Kunniasta, precisely Sankaritarina (for the epic atmosphere and choirs at the end), mixed with the very end of Jotunheim (for the same reason), mixed with the best parts of Hävitetty, in particular on Jäästä Syntynyt (for the prog/epic construction of the riffs).

Though I may have forgotten some details, I am sorry for the long post, but I needed to share my thoughts. Tell me what you think!


Last edited by Moulk on Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Gallaecia
Moulk wrote:
- Jumalten Aika: [...] some parts remind me of Unohdusken Lapsi.


AB-SO-LU-TE-LY!! Very first thing I thought the very first time I heard it!
Other very first thoughts were Nokturnal Mortum in the intro and what everyone has said already: Karhunkynsi on Suden Tunti.

I'm not sure I would call the shaman thing a direction. A new element, yes, but not really a direction.

My complaint about Mimisbrunn is the blastbeats. They're good, the second one reminds me of Cult of Fire because of the 5-4-3-2 in the cymbal, and overall they're totally ok BUT... they start in such bad moments! Such a musically sad song shouldn't have those sudden outbursts of rage. It can have them, but not so sudden, that's my point. They were much better introduced in... basically any other Moonsorrow song with blast beats.

I'm very tired right now. Will discuss more tomorrow, good night!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:51 am
Posts: 16
[quote="Moulk"]- Jumalten Aika: [...] some parts remind me of Unohdusken Lapsi.


Yeah, definately... Which is what annoys me immensely about the first 7 minutes of JA.. I was always wondering why they decided to **** up such an awesome start to a song (Unohdusken Lapsi), with turning it around into a complete snoozefest.. Moreso, this happy/bouncy section feels completely out of place on this new album, at least to me it does..

will comment on other songs a bit later, now its worktime, yay!

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:51 am
Posts: 16
Alrighty... finally came around to write up a list of the most significant copy/paste-ish moments on the new album. Take it for what its worth, but I have to stress that Im not hater nor a nitpicking *******. I just think that pointing this out doesnt hurt anyone, maybe, just maybe the band will take notice and will try to stay away from repeating themselves in the future..


ihmisen aika
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJCaFm3Djf0#t=10m15s
jotunheim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc2xMaW ... e#t=10m35s


ihmisen aika
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJCaFm3Djf0#t=1m32s
ukkosenjumalan poika
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtAbSU_AoeI#t=0m48s


jumalten aika
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDKctLk ... lse#t=2m5s
unohduksen lapsi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymucXwPfOLo#t=0m55s


mimisbrunn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtWFO_m ... tml5=False
jotunheim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc2xMaWcJn4#t=0m33s


ruttolehto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDdQFdiNK_o#t=0m40s
pimea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DjnTkDAF0E#t=0m40s


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:28 pm
Posts: 297
Location: Paris suburb
Thank you for the links, it's striking me now as well. And I don't think you're a nitpicking *******. I just think I'm deaf.

MNge

_________________
I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Land of Obese Unicorns
Wow, there were some things I didn't notice before :o

The link between Ihmisen Aika and Jotunheim is strong, well done. Same for Jumalten Aika and Unohduksen Lapsi, but everyone already agreed on this one ^^ I'm confused about the others, in particular the last one. The riffs don't sound the same, do they?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:51 am
Posts: 16
[quote="marieneige"]Thank you for the links, it's striking me now as well. And I don't think you're a nitpicking *******. I just think I'm deaf.

MNge



lol, had u been deaf, Im sure u wouldnt be a fan of MS ;)

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:51 am
Posts: 16
Moulk wrote:
Wow, there were some things I didn't notice before :o

The link between Ihmisen Aika and Jotunheim is strong, well done. Same for Jumalten Aika and Unohduksen Lapsi, but everyone already agreed on this one ^^ I'm confused about the others, in particular the last one. The riffs don't sound the same, do they?


- The main riff of Ihmisen Aika is arranged a bit differently, but ends up following the same chord progression as the main riff of Ukkosenjumalan Poika...

- Mimisbrunn intro is very reminiscent of Jotunheims, its also the fourth song on a five song album which doesnt help. Actually IMO the intro of Mimisbrunn is a bit uninspired, the guys couldve come up with smth different to open the song...

- As for Ruttolehto/Pimea, the riffs are different chordwise, but very similar in their straightforwardness, both of the songs jump straight to these riffs, then theyre both replaced with the verse riffs. The arrangement and placement of these in the song structure is very similar... (but yeah, i dont mind this one as much as the other four)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:28 pm
Posts: 297
Location: Paris suburb
[quote="razorback917"][quote="marieneige"]Thank you for the links, it's striking me now as well. And I don't think you're a nitpicking *******. I just think I'm deaf.

MNge



lol, had u been deaf, Im sure u wouldnt be a fan of MS ;)

Everybody knows I'm here for the boys! :roll:

Joke aside, and excuse my naivety, but I have a question that goes over Moonsorrow.
Don't composers tend to re-use some parts of their creation all along their carreer, as a gimmick or just innocently?

MNge
_________________
I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New album 2015
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:11 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Land of Obese Unicorns
marieneige wrote:
Don't composers tend to re-use some parts of their creation all along their carreer, as a gimmick or just innocently?


Yeah, I think most of them do that. It's pretty clear that when you find something which is both coming from your heart and really cool/beautiful, it's hard not to use it again, even in different ways. I think a composer (or any artist) is a perpetual learner, but some of them tend to use more of their "trademark" than others. It can be because it's easy, because they're self-centered, or because they don't know how to do otherwise. It's okay to re-use a good element, if you use it intelligently.

And Razorback, okay, I now I see your point. But the fact is that Moonsorrow did not begin to steal their own riffs with this new album! Examples:

The rhythmic riff in these songs:
Koylionjarven: https://youtu.be/KR8WP6iO-AE?t=41
Pakanajuhla: https://youtu.be/-14fipyeJuY?t=17s
Huuto: https://youtu.be/MRg8Tg-oM_A?t=627
And Kivenkantaja has the same in triplets: https://youtu.be/AqNVDhC8FZI?t=59


I've been talking about the "cringing" bends before, here are four examples (and of course you can add Ruttolehto to the list and some solo bits in other songs):

Sankarihauta: https://youtu.be/TwN8QRpAP3k?t=3m45s
Raunioilla: https://youtu.be/xpUtyrRaS1Q?t=9m45s
Tuulen Tytär/Soturin Tie: https://youtu.be/CRpdakf-k9o?t=7m50s
Jäästä Syntynyt: https://youtu.be/3isGs5se-Z8?t=21m29s


But wait, there's more! Listen to the second part of Karhunkynsi and one of the middle riffs of Tuleen Ajettu Maa:

Karhunkynsi: https://youtu.be/vpnhUp-LEKU?t=532
Tuleen Ajettu Maa: https://youtu.be/RCWAdV0fvaI?t=798


So, yeah, at least you can't really say they started to copy their own music with Jumalten Aika :P


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

suspicion-preferred